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zdatsupra
07-24-2006, 05:53 PM
Hey guys,
I just hooked up the maft pro onto the mk3 turbo.
It seems to be running much better than expected with no tuning. I was surprised how easy it was to install, even a slowpoke like me got it hooked up and running within a few hours.

I have a lc1 on order. I have a few questions Im hoping some supra guys can help with.

1.The question is do I leave the stock o2 sensor wiring in place to the factory ecu and just hook up the lc1 as a permanent install to the maftpro? or do I disconnect the factory 02 sensor all together?

2.My other question is, now that I have it hooked up everytime I start the car my supermonitor says I need a oil change but then it still tracks that I have 1900 miles left before an oil change, anyone else run into this?

3. My other problem I have had is Ive spiked a temp 2 times now before the fans kicked on but I think I have a loose temp sensor so hopefully there is nothing related to the install.

I will probably have some more questions about the tuning once I get the wideband. I will keep in touch.
Anyother supras out there?
Thanks ahead of time.
Peter

mhopemk3
08-10-2006, 11:14 AM
I just set this up on mine as well.. I have not heard anyone say anything about removing the stock O2.. Just leave it in.. I have read somewhere that in the new revisions for the maft pro you could disconnect it but that may only be for a new option or something..

Don't plan on putting the WB 02 in the stock spot.. You need to mount it further down the pipe. When you get the LC1 make sure to connect analog out2 to the Maft pro..

No idea on the supermonitor.. or the fans

Let me know what your setup is and what kind of tune your using on the maft.. maybe we can compare some setups to get a great tune..

zdatsupra
09-20-2006, 05:04 PM
I got the fans fixed, just a loose connection and the supermonitor seems to have fixed itself after my last oil change.
I ended up finally getting a good lc1 after the 1st one was a dud. I left the stock 02 wiring in place. Im now starting to look at afr tracking and will tune soon.
What part of Jville you in? I use to live in riverside.

drjonez
09-22-2006, 06:14 PM
1.The question is do I leave the stock o2 sensor wiring in place to the factory ecu and just hook up the lc1 as a permanent install to the maftpro? or do I disconnect the factory 02 sensor all together?

it depends on what you want to do. the easiest thing to do would be to leave the stock O2 intact (provided it works!) and let the ECU take care of closed loop stuff.

the things you read about people disconnecting the stock O2 sensor is in reference to using part throttle AFR tracking.


2.My other question is, now that I have it hooked up everytime I start the car my supermonitor says I need a oil change but then it still tracks that I have 1900 miles left before an oil change, anyone else run into this?


looks like you fixed this based on your other thread...semi-related note, my supermonitor "select" buttotn stopped working....oi.


3. My other problem I have had is Ive spiked a temp 2 times now before the fans kicked on but I think I have a loose temp sensor so hopefully there is nothing related to the install.

looks like you fixed this based on your other thread...


I will probably have some more questions about the tuning once I get the wideband. I will keep in touch.
Anyother supras out there?
Thanks ahead of time.
Peter

sounds good.

yeah, there are a few supras out here... ;)

zdatsupra
10-14-2006, 11:50 PM
Thanks Dr.J for your responses, this post might test you a little bit more, if not on a technical level then at least in your ability to decipher what I am trying to say. lol .
Here goes, its kind of long.

Im hoping a you or another supra expert can help me here with the maftpro. Please bear with this long post. Ive just gone through a terrible frustrating week but I think I might be moving up into the learning curve.
My question applies to the maftpro , it seems like I was lucky upon install and had it running good with no adjustments. After getting the lc1 hooked up and after my last hwy trip things took a turn for the worst. I was initially idling perfect at 14.7 and getting down to like 11.5 afr on wot. After my trip my car started backfiring, sputtering and finally almost overheating, when I pulled over it sounded like a boost leak and my turbo and exhaust were glowing red hot. Yikes.
So for the last week Ive been troubleshooting, found some boost leaks, replaced a knock sensor that had broken which I suspected to be the main problem and disconnected my charcoal canister which I found to be clogged. The problem though is since I fixed all this the car still hasnt ran good again, Ive troubleshooted the fuelpump,ignition,map sensor,vacuum leaks and didnt find anything else. I did find that I could get the car to idle good for a few minutes if I pulled the ecu fuse to erase the settings. After warm up or after applying some gas I would no longer be able to idle. Afrs were running richer, like in the 12s at idle and then sometimes 14 but eventually just stalling and/or sputtering if applying throttle. So after searching for new cars, considering the 1j swap, and thinking of just getting rid of the supra I think I may have stumbled upon something which might alleviate my frustration. I now believe I have fixed all unrelated maftpro issues, it was initially a fluke that my car ran fairly well for a few weeks and now that everything is actually how it is suppose to be I actually need to tune to get it running right again. I kept believing I had more problems to find but it may have been that initially the leaks were counterbalancing my richness and so now no leaks equals less air=too rich. Why do I think this? I was reading up on the vf monitoring so I hooked that up to the aux1 purple wire. I also looked at my min tps setting and adjusted that a little bit above my idle tps reading. I then looked at the vf reading and it seems to be mostly at like 0.0 and sometimes creeps up into the 2s. At idle i was getting 0.0 so I went into the tune response settings for low load and went to the 800 rpm range and decreased the setting by about 20%, this seemed to almost instantly increase my rpms and I started seeing the vf readings get close to the 2s more consistantly at idle, I drove up the street and I didnt stall at idle once.
So at this point I had to quit because its after 10pm and Im running an open downpipe which my neighbors are starting to hate:devil: . From what Ive read and now understand Im probably running rich everywhere so I should first monitor my afs throughouth the range and then probably decrease the baseline settings which will have an across the range effect. Once i get a happy medium then I should focus on the low,mid and high points.
Does any of this make sense and/or sound correct to anyone else?
My question also now is for using the vf for tuning. Am I right in my understanding
1. if vf = 5 the ecu is thinking we are lean and is adding fuel?
2. if vf = 0 in my case the ecu thinks the car is rich and is trying to decrease fuel?
3. If the above are correct then it is the tuners job to help the ecu achieve this by adjusting the settings?
My other questions relate to when we can actually tune.
4. Closed loop is at warm idle, cruising on the hwy and lightly accelerating? The manual saysthat this isnt tuneable which is confusing because isnt this what we are adjusting by playing with each of the load ranges?
5. Open loop is at cold engine warm up and then at wot? The manual says this is what we can tune so is the maft pro being refenced in open loop but not closed loop for these settings?
I guess Im confused about what and when we are tuning.
6. So if we can only tune in open loop does this mean that the vf is only useful while in open loop?
This is still confusing:confused: because when I adjusted my low load setting I was warmed up and idling and so this should have been closed loop and I was indeed able to tune unlike what Im reading in the manual.
Can someone clarify this?
Thanks
Peter

Supralover2000
10-15-2006, 07:36 AM
Hello Peter,
here are some answers to your questions, but first let me state that the Toyota ECU is very different then other ECUs. So tuning a Toyota ecu may not be as easy as some of the others out there, because it is constantly reading and fighting to get back to the setting it has programed from factory.
With that being said, the only time one is able to control the ECU is in Open loop when the ECU is no longer reading from "all" of its sensors and goes into a set of predetermined fuel maps. Lastly for better understanding of your vf you we must know what your setup consists of including fuel injector size and fuel pressure.
Now here are some answers...

1. if vf = 5 the ecu is thinking we are lean and is adding fuel?

Yes.

2. if vf = 0 in my case the ecu thinks the car is rich and is trying to decrease fuel?

Yes

3. If the above are correct then it is the tuners job to help the ecu achieve this by adjusting the settings?

Yes.. the Maftpro will allow you to adjust the main scale (+/-) to feed the ecu a signal that closely resembles that of the stock afm reading. Depending on the fuel setup (if other than stock) you should start with adjusting the fuel pressure so that the vf signal is somewhere around 2.5 and 3.5. That will put you at as close to stoich as possible at idle. You have to use the formula that will help you find the fuel flow of your injectors at your fuel pressure, then adjust the mainscale to where the ecu would be seeing the appromate flow for the stock 440cc injectors. You can find some of those formulas here:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

My other questions relate to when we can actually tune.
4. Closed loop is at warm idle, cruising on the hwy and lightly accelerating?

Yes.

...The manual saysthat this isnt tuneable which is confusing because isnt this what we are adjusting by playing with each of the load ranges?

By adjusting the fuel pressure and vf, you will be setting the base from which the ecu will get its reading for closed loop. Once you have set the mainscale most of your adjustments will be made in the high load settings which affect your WOT conditions ie. openloop.

5. Open loop is at cold engine warm up and then at wot? The manual says this is what we can tune so is the maft pro being refenced in open loop but not closed loop for these settings? I guess Im confused about what and when we are tuning.

The unit is always beign referenced but the ecu will fight during closed loop to maintain the settings was programed to have. so the changes during closed loop are temporary if they are too far off from what the ecu is trying to achieve.

6. So if we can only tune in open loop does this mean that the vf is only useful while in open loop?
This is still confusing:confused: because when I adjusted my low load setting I was warmed up and idling and so this should have been closed loop and I was indeed able to tune unlike what Im reading in the manual.
Can someone clarify this?

I believe I addressed this in my last answer. although there is still another element to tuning which some of the user have switched to, this is the part throttle AF tracking feature would require some rewiring which would force the car into open loop all the time, which would then allow you to make adjustment at all the load points. There is more info about this feature on other posts here on FTT.
Hope this helps,

Wellington.
Thanks
Peter

zdatsupra
10-15-2006, 12:12 PM
Supralover,
yes anything helps, thanks, at least I know what I think I know is right. I think I was prematurely excited last night because as of this morning the car will not idle wout me keeping the throttle slightly open. Im back to suspecting something else which this time may be my wastegate, I have to rule that out before going further.
What Im still not sure about is what we are actually changing that the ecu is fighting.
When we make changes are we actually adjusting the values in the ecu?. I thought these piggybacks were just intercepting signals to the ecu and then making adjustments to signals that come from the ecu. If this was the case and we were feeding the ecu what it wanted how would it know we changed something and then try to fight it?
I guess the question is then what are we actually adjusting by playing with the mainscale? Are we adjusting the signals the ecu is seeing so that it ends up making changes ito ts calculations? This would only be closed loop I guess.
If the ecu doesnt use feedback in open loop how are we tuning in open loop? Is it that we are making adjustments to the signals the ecu is sending out?
Still confused, I wonder if I have reached the maximum exposure limits to gas fumes,:confused:
again, thanks in advance...

zdatsupra
10-15-2006, 12:42 PM
I just wanted to add that this was all previously done on version 4.4,
I just updated to 4.65 and that was a smooth process.
I just started her up, will see what happens. So far it seems much better, kinda like when I first installed the 4.40version.
I went for a test drive, its idling good now, knock on wood.
Im going to let it cool off and look at swap my wastegate as I suspect something is up with that.
Im running the sp61gt, speed density mode, 440 injectors, 7lb wastegate, stock fuel system.

Supralover2000
10-15-2006, 02:47 PM
you are running stock fuel and you are exceeding the stock boost level, there is little that this or any other piggyback can do for you. The most important thing to have is good engine harness with all of the sensors connected also working properly. Also if you havent already I would recommend getting the injectors tested since they are atleast 14years old and could be working below efficiency. once you begin turning the boost up the maftpro along with the wideband will become greater assets. you should be looking to mostly tune the high load since even with stock injectors the ecu tends to dump a lot of fuel into the mix. typically I've seen a/f's lower than 10:1 at WOT with stock injectors, so here is where you would want to make your changes. good luck with everything.
BTW, that SP61gt won't start singing until you get it into the 14psi range, thats where your hat will fly off if you don't hold on to it ;)

zdatsupra
10-15-2006, 05:11 PM
What the piggy back did for me was get rid of the afm and allow me to fit something up to the larger turbo inlet. It ran great for a month with absolutely no problems. Just as I was getting ready to tune everything has gone haywire. At this point it looks like maftpro and sp61 will be coming out of the car for resale before I even get to hear it really sing. The supra is turning into too much wrench time for a daily driver. I already have two other project vehicles. Thanks anyways.

drjonez
10-17-2006, 12:38 PM
i see no mention of checking/resetting timing. i HIGHLY suggest you inspect cam and CPS timing....sounds like you may have jumped a tooth on the timing belt.

zdatsupra
10-17-2006, 07:47 PM
Dr.J
Yeah I did check the timing, at least on the cams and crank. I did not recheck the timing of the cps. My old timing light fell apart as I was trying to get the wire clip on, go figure. After that I couldnt keep it idleing long enough to check it again with a light. I am pulling the trubo and sending it back into sound performance for a recheck/rebuild. I believe I fried the wastegate actuator so that might be a contributing factor now that I have the other issues taken care of.
While the turbo is out I will recheck all wires, although they have all been soldered in so I dont know what could be up there.

Does it tell you anything that it seems to idle best after I pull the ecu fuse and reset it?. It will then idle real good at least until it warms up.

zdatsupra
10-18-2006, 09:34 PM
How about this,
the manifold pressure now reads about 70 at idle, where it use to read what the manual states, around 30 i think. What would cause this? possible bad map sensor? It reads ok with the engine off, right around 100.
anyone?

drjonez
10-24-2006, 11:58 AM
get a vac gauge and slap it on there....sounds like you've got a vac leak.

Supralover2000
10-24-2006, 01:12 PM
is your stock boost guage reading anything other than -4 at idle? if so like Doc said, you have a vaccum leak.
check out this link to see if all vac lines are in order..

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/TechTips/vacuum_hose.aspx

mhopemk3
11-08-2006, 08:15 AM
Hey ZDAT! I live in Arlington.. Are you still in Jax?