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jsd
04-05-2007, 07:50 PM
Mike, Bob:
I can really use some help.

As you records will show I have purchased quite a few items from you and have installed all of them including the GenII Translator+, Extreme G chip and LS1MAF. I'm trying to set the initial tune on the car and would like some advice.

First some simple questions so that I have an understanding of this process.

1) can you please explain Lo-Load, Mid-Load & High-load ranges to me?

2)There are two different setting areas that the GenII allows for the adjustment of load ranges:
A) Lo-Load Pt., Mid-Load Pt. & High-Load Pt.
B) AF Lo-Load, AF Mid-Load & AF High-load across RPM ranges @ 400 RPM increases. Can you please explain the difference?

3) When I see user's explain they are setting timing at 19/17 what does this mean? I think it's in regard to 1st & 2nd gear timing, but have trouble understanding the relationship to RPM and heavy and light throttle use, e.g, if you are on the throttle hard, wouldn't the shift points be higher than if just cruising?

4) I have my timing set to 18* across all RPM ranges, yet my scanmaster reads 25* at idle, please explain?

Now here is my situation:

Setup: I have followed the setup instructions and all System Setting are at default parameters.

Issue: Car runs good, but idle BLM is about 122. When cruising, from 30MPH to 60MPH the BLM's drop to around 116. When I get on the car, WOT, so far the BLM's are @ 128.

In an attempt to adjust idle BLM to appro. 128, I tried to use AF Lo-Load and the current parameters I set them at are as follows:All parameters start @ 400 RPM & end @ 5800.

+3.%, +2%, +2%, +1%, +.5%, +1%, 0, +1.5%, +1.5%, +2.5%, +4.5%

In an attempt to adjust cruise BLM to appro. 128, I tried to use AF Mid-Load and the current parameters I set them at are as follows:All parameters start @ 400 RPM & end @ 5800.

-31%, -50.5%, -48%, -48%, -44.5%, -44%, -45%, -43.5%, -45%, -46.5%, -27.5%

Am I going about this incorrectly?

I've read the instruction manual several times over and still can't quiet master it. I have no experience with this level of sophistication as all my experience is with early Buick and Chevy engines and I've no-one around for support.

I saw a thread on your site that instructed a user to use MainScale parameters for cruise BLM adjustment as follows (same issue as mine):

Use the mainscale adjustment to +/- fuel for cruise blm. 40-50 MPH. You won't do much 100 mph cruising. Once you have that set let the car idle and see where your blms are. If you need to adjust idle blm's use low load tune and +\- fuel at 800-1200 RPM.
ARF Tracking is for WOT. It will correct fuel when the user settings are met.
( TPS, RPM, etc)
Post your settings in AFR tracking, we'll make sure your getting into tracking.

5) what is AFR tracking and should I be checking this parameter?

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Rick87gn
04-06-2007, 12:41 AM
Would you like advice from others?

jsd
04-06-2007, 08:40 AM
my sincere apologizes, I would take help from any expert in the field.

I really appreciate your help.

jsd
04-06-2007, 08:42 AM
my sincere apologizes.I would take advice from any expert in the field.

would really appreciate your advice.

thanks.

Rick87gn
04-06-2007, 09:31 AM
I didn't see a wideband in your parts list, If you don't have that you can not do afr tracking. Tracking means fuel correction. Adding or subtracting fuel from the tune based on wideband o2 sensor. Without it, no tracking.

Lets slow down here and start one step at a time. I recommend you reset the gen II and start over.The tune values can be reset to the factory defaults by holding the upper right keypad button for 15 seconds while powering up the unit.
When the default settings have been restored, the unit will display "All data Reset!"

From there configure the gen II to your set up.

We will then tune using mainly the mainscale, low load and high load pages.

Do you have a scanmaster? You obviously have some type of scantool.

I will address some of your specific q's later.

Gotta go to work.

jsd
04-06-2007, 08:58 PM
Rick


got you reply and reset the Gen II to factory settings and set up the system to my equipment. what next? I do have a scanmaster.

Rick87gn
04-06-2007, 10:51 PM
First thing we will tune with is mainscale. Adjusting mainscale is like adjusting fp. It will change the fuel across the entire range. Increase the number to give more fuel, decrease for less. Tune off the blm while cruising.
With your line off fp set 42, take the car out for a ride. Using the mainscale get it close to 128 while cruising.
Now once you stop the car and put it in park you can tweak the idle blm (if needed) in the low load page @ 800-1200 rpm ranges.

Set up you sensor monitor page to read rpm and load. Here you can get an idea of the load points. As you accelerate the gen II calculates load. Watch it in the sensor monitor page (Load) to determine what load range you are in and at what rpm.. Generally once the mainscale is tuned, a little tweaking in the low and high pages and you should be set.

Watch those millivolts close on wot in third gear. Remember you have no wideband to correct. If it gets too low add fuel to high tune page at higher rpm ranges.

Tune idle and cruise off blm and wot off o2 millivolt vs. knock.

Is any of this making sense?

TurboBob
04-07-2007, 02:05 AM
having blms at 128 is not an absolute.....

if it drives ok, don't sweet BLMs like 116.... You can tweak them in later.

Load is "low" at idle and light throttle cruise, medium("mid") on light accel (0 psi), and "high" about about 6-8 psi.

the load pt (load point) is the load value that the adjustment page centers on.

watch the load value when idleing and light throttle cruiseing, and set your low load pt to that or slightly more.

set your mid pt to 100 or so (it should be already)

set your high load pt to the load that corresponds to about 7 psi. (140...)

then you tune your fueling with the tuning pages. You can also tune based on the airflow reading, thats the airflow page, but you need to take a lot of data to tune that.

Bob

jsd
04-07-2007, 03:38 PM
Rick;

took your advice and you nailed it, Thank you very much!

Now, here is where I'm at.

At op temp in park BLM @ 127

light on the accelerator going to cruise speed BLM @ 130. Once at cruise speed, steady on the throttle BLM @ 126. At a stop light in gear BLM @ 127. Hard on the throttle at WOT BLM @ 128. One green light on the knock gage(didn't see the knock retard number). Have the boost set @ 17#.

what else should I do?

PS. it IS starting to make sense.

Again many thanks!!!!!

Rick87gn
04-07-2007, 07:17 PM
Rick;

took your advice and you nailed it, Thank you very much!

Now, here is where I'm at.

At op temp in park BLM @ 127

light on the accelerator going to cruise speed BLM @ 130. Once at cruise speed, steady on the throttle BLM @ 126. At a stop light in gear BLM @ 127. Hard on the throttle at WOT BLM @ 128. One green light on the knock gage(didn't see the knock retard number). Have the boost set @ 17#.

what else should I do?

PS. it IS starting to make sense.

Again many thanks!!!!!

Very nice! Now you see how it works. I run the maft pro myself so its a little different but the same general idea. Very cool tuning devices. :coool:
What next? Let's see if I can give you a understanding of what happens at wot. I think that would be a smart thing to do.
Our cars ECM's run two different ways. Open and closed loop. Once it is at op temp it will run in closed loop. Closed loop means the ECM is making correction in the fueling based on the factory o2, motor temp, etc. Thats what your blm is doing. Thats why you tune off blm# for idle and cruise. 128 is the mid point of the ECM's ability to correct fuel. Bottomed out blm is 90 and toped out is 150 so you tune to stay in between.
Now once you put your foot on the floor its a whole nother ball game. You ECM goes into open loop. No more correction. The fuel tune is a directly based on you. Your blm will lock @128 and the tune all is up to you. Well for the most part. The tune in the chip obviously plays a part.. Now time to watch o2 millivolts and knock. Get out on a nice road and get rollin and get it into third. Roll into the throttle, but you don't want to down shift. You want run the car up in third while watching o2 millivolts. 780-800 on street fuel at the lowest. See what the scanmaster records. Tune wot fuel in High tune page. I like to add 10% or so to the high tune before I even test. Just to be sure its not lean. This is where a wideband o2 comes in handy. The Gen II will track and correct fuel at wot based on the input from a wideband. It makes things alot more easy.

What you really need is a wideband o2 and a alky kit :D @ 20 psi. LOLO

Hope this helps, good luck. Anything you still need from the first post let us know.

Rick

jsd
04-07-2007, 08:31 PM
Rick;

I'll give this a go tomorrow. Have one question, will it matter if I'm driving the car at 50mph or 66mph or whatever mph, as long as I'm stay in 3rd, to perform that high load BLM/knock procedure? Again, I can't thank you enough for this guidence.

Thanks, Joe.

Rick87gn
04-08-2007, 01:39 AM
Rick;

I'll give this a go tomorrow. Have one question, will it matter if I'm driving the car at 50mph or 66mph or whatever mph, as long as I'm stay in 3rd, to perform that high load BLM/knock procedure? Again, I can't thank you enough for this guidence.

Thanks, Joe.
Joe

You want a wot pull in third. Start from 40 or so and lay into it. Like I said before though, you don't want downshift, just a good wot pull in third. Keep an eye on o2's if you see them hit low 700's or get knock pull out and add some fuel. You want 780-800mv at the top of third gear. When you hit the recall button the sm, mv's should be around there. Much better to start rich and work your way down. Thats why I like to add fuel before testing.

Rick

Rick87gn
04-10-2007, 08:41 AM
Joe, hows the car? Let us know how it's going. :usa:

Rick

jsd
04-12-2007, 11:31 PM
Car's running good, at least the last time I had the chance to run it. Weather in the NE has been horrible for a week and a half. Your advice has been spot-on. I do have one question, should I be chasing nummbers....I'll explain. My op temp BLM # in park runs between 123-126. The BLM # runs to 130-131 under light throttle going to cruise speed then settles into 127. Rolling into WOT I after adding about 35% fuel gave me no knock retard and a high of 817mv. What do you think.

One more question, I'm going to by drag radials and I was reading that 255-60-15's work really well. My question is that the tire is 1" taller, will that require additional adjustments?

again thank you for taking the time to help me through this. I will keep you updated.

PS. my goal is 12.5 this summer.

jsd
04-12-2007, 11:39 PM
I noticed

jsd
04-12-2007, 11:40 PM
I notice that my signature wasn't coming up so I reposted.

Rick87gn
04-13-2007, 09:45 AM
Car's running good, at least the last time I had the chance to run it. Weather in the NE has been horrible for a week and a half. Your advice has been spot-on. I do have one question, should I be chasing nummbers....I'll explain. My op temp BLM # in park runs between 123-126. The BLM # runs to 130-131 under light throttle going to cruise speed then settles into 127. Rolling into WOT I after adding about 35% fuel gave me no knock retard and a high of 817mv. What do you think.

One more question, I'm going to by drag radials and I was reading that 255-60-15's work really well. My question is that the tire is 1" taller, will that require additional adjustments?

again thank you for taking the time to help me through this. I will keep you updated.

PS. my goal is 12.5 this summer.

Nice,
I would'nt chase the numbers they look good. 35% is alot of fuel but if it works, thats all that counts. Is 817mv what the scanmaster recorded? What MPH? Seems a little rich. Just a little. If you need that much to supress knock then it's ok. On the tire thing you should'nt have to do much mabye add a little fuel. Glad it's working out.

Rick :usa:

powder
04-13-2007, 10:51 PM
As my first post on this board I want to thank you all for the valuable information as I am in a very similar situation with the same parts. I now am less confused however I'm experiencing other problems like a code 34 and basically an undriveable car at this point.
My problems are probably due to the other variables I caused when installing the new turbo and rerouting the air intake. Thanks again for posting helpful info for us more technically challenged. MLH

jsd
04-22-2007, 07:33 PM
Rick;

I just had a chance to take the car back out. Tried another WOT pull as you explained and I'm finding it hard not to squeez the throttle too much to get downshift. Any advice.

Also, I did a WOT run and noticed that I got red lights on the knock sensor and aborted the run. Pulled off and the scanmaster recorded 792mv and .9* knock retard.

I have not changed any parameters since my last post. Other than that issue during all other driver conditions the readouts are as reported perviously, which were good.

I did notice that the FP was low, 41# so I increased it to 43#, but have not tried another run.

Any ideas? As always thanks for the help.

Joe.

Rick87gn
04-22-2007, 07:51 PM
Rick;

I just had a chance to take the car back out. Tried another WOT pull as you explained and I'm finding it hard not to squeez the throttle too much to get downshift. Any advice.

Also, I did a WOT run and noticed that I got red lights on the knock sensor and aborted the run. Pulled off and the scanmaster recorded 792mv and .9* knock retard.

I have not changed any parameters since my last post. Other than that issue during all other driver conditions the readouts are as reported perviously, which were good.

I did notice that the FP was low, 41# so I increased it to 43#, but have not tried another run.

Any ideas? As always thanks for the help.

Joe.

Hey Joe,
I know its hard not to downshift. Try starting from a little faster speed and ease into it. Your concerned with the top of third so its not critical to get the pedal down fast. Knock in 1st and 2nd gears are generally false.
If you press and hold both buttons on the sm it will show the mph from which the o2 and knock where recorded. A 792mv looks good. It would be help full to know what mph it happened. You think the knock from shifting gears? Or was it pulling in third?
Now that you increased fp it should bring your mv's up. If it's real knock it should respond with a lower or no knock count.
Hope this helps.

Don't forget you have fuel adjustability right from the cockpit with the Gen II.
Mainscale adjustment is exactly like fuel adjusting preassure and if you just need fuel at the top, use your hi tune page and add fuel to upper rpm ranges.
Use the force:usa:

Rick

jsd
04-23-2007, 08:06 PM
Rick;

I think starting at a higher speed will help. Not sure if it was 1st to 2nd knock. I didn't know about the two button MPH operation of the SM, thanks! That bit of knowledge would have helped.

Let me ask a clarification question. When you say use the hi tune page to adjust high rpm fuel, do you mean the hi load page?

As always greatly appreciated.

Joe.

Rick87gn
04-23-2007, 08:09 PM
Rick;

I think starting at a higher speed will help. Not sure if it was 1st to 2nd knock. I didn't know about the two button MPH operation of the SM, thanks! That bit of knowledge would have helped.

Let me ask a clarification question. When you say use the hi tune page to adjust high rpm fuel, do you mean the hi load page?

As always greatly appreciated.

Joe.

Hey Joe, Yes, I meant hi load page.

Rick

jsd
04-25-2007, 10:25 PM
great, thanks.

jsd
05-07-2007, 09:09 PM
Rick
I haven't had the opportunity to run the test you suggest but I had the car out yesterday and wanted to see if you could do some diagnostics based on some things that happened.

I was out driving at about 55mph and went wot got to full boast, 17# and noticed knock gauge lit up. check the scanmaster and I had 1.9* knock @ 73mph w/792Mv.

I increased the AFR in high load and did the same run and got .9 @ 75mph w/812Mv.

I then lowered the wot timing at above 3000rpms to 17*, ran the same test and it had no affect, .9* @ 74mph w/802Mv.

I then got the opportunity to powerbrake the car on a remote road. Left @ 4# boast went wot and got instant knock before immediately backing out, 4.9*. Don't remember the mph, but it was from a standing start.

This wasn't so much a test as a day out having fun with my brother and brother-in-law and their cars. Just wanted to see if there is anything you can figure out from that?

I'm leaving for a fishing trip into the Adarondack's for the next 5 days so I won't read till then. As always thanks.

Rick87gn
05-08-2007, 11:22 PM
Rick
I haven't had the opportunity to run the test you suggest but I had the car out yesterday and wanted to see if you could do some diagnostics based on some things that happened.

I was out driving at about 55mph and went wot got to full boast, 17# and noticed knock gauge lit up. check the scanmaster and I had 1.9* knock @ 73mph w/792Mv.

I increased the AFR in high load and did the same run and got .9 @ 75mph w/812Mv.

I then lowered the wot timing at above 3000rpms to 17*, ran the same test and it had no affect, .9* @ 74mph w/802Mv.

I then got the opportunity to powerbrake the car on a remote road. Left @ 4# boast went wot and got instant knock before immediately backing out, 4.9*. Don't remember the mph, but it was from a standing start.

This wasn't so much a test as a day out having fun with my brother and brother-in-law and their cars. Just wanted to see if there is anything you can figure out from that?

I'm leaving for a fishing trip into the Adarondack's for the next 5 days so I won't read till then. As always thanks.


Sounds to me like your getting a little knock on 2-3 shift. Its weird that you pulled timming and added fuel and still got it. I wonder if you picking up something else.
When power breaking, knock sensor will pick up racket in the drive train or something loose and so fourth. There is like a mile long list of things that cause false knock. Generally we tune watching for knock or low o2 once we are into third gear. Anything down low in 1st or 2nd is usually false.
Mabys take a look at motor and trans mounts or something hitting. Like the downpipe.
Just guessing :usa: